AFANA Footy BBS

I am a huge fan of Assie Football, and watch as many games as possible. Would someone please give me the sizt of the field, the duties of the six umpires, and where they are situated(placement) I know about the goal umpires, but miss their "white" coats. While this is the sign of the times, I still miss the style. Also, would someone tell me about the penalties, and suspensions.

Thank you in advance

Robert

Have you checked out the Footy FAQ on the AFANA website?

There really is no standard field size. It is determined by the size of the facility where you are playing. But the bigger the better (in my opinion). The FAQ contains the sizes of most, if not all, of the current AFL venues. I'll bet it also has answers to many of your other questions too.

> Have you checked out the Footy FAQ on the AFANA website?

> There really is no standard field size. It is determined by the size of the facility
> where you are playing. But the bigger the better (in my opinion). The FAQ contains
> the sizes of most, if not all, of the current AFL venues. I'll bet it also has
> answers to many of your other questions too.

I don't like the field at the SCG. The field seems way too small with only the 45 meter lines and a very limited midfield. Telstra Dome or the MCG look like they have fields with just about the right size if you ask me.

e if you ask me.

> I don't like the field at the SCG. The field seems way too small with only the 45
> meter lines and a very limited midfield.

I agree the SCG is too small. I could use this as an opportunity to make another snide comment about the Swans, but I think I'll take the high road for a change.

> I agree the SCG is too small. I could use this as an opportunity to make another
> snide comment about the Swans, but I think I'll take the high road for a change.

Actually, I agree on this one. The SCG doesn't require a skilled CHF to advance the ball. When the Swans travel to a larger venue, they have to adjust their play style as a result.

  -- RW "KC Swan" Lipp

>> I agree the SCG is too small.
> Actually, I agree on this one.

Oh, my. The karma around here is getting really weird when both of you agree...

-Rob de Santos
AFANA Chairman

AFANA Blog

> Oh, my. The karma around here is getting really weird when
> both of you agree...

Actually we agree on something else too.
We both prefer teams other than West Coast.

> Actually we agree on something else too.
> We both prefer teams other than West Coast.

That's not weird karma, that's bad karma

But there's always hope, maybe you'll both see the light and follow my example.

-Rob de Santos
AFANA Chairman

AFANA Blog

>
>
> Actually, I agree on this one. The SCG doesn't require a skilled CHF to advance the
> ball. When the Swans travel to a larger venue, they have to adjust their play style
> as a result.
>

  -- RW "KC Swan" Lipp

> How much do you think the short ground is an advantage at home and/or a disadvantage
> on the road?

I would draw an analogy to Major League Baseball's use of the designated hitter in interleague play. When an American League team plays in a National League park, the pitchers practically need to be told which end of the bat to hold. When a National League team plays in an American League park, they have a bench full of backup players who hit better than a pitcher -- the manager just needs to decide which fielding glove he wants to lose for the game.

By the same token, the Swans go on the road and have to play a different game than they play at home. It's really going to show up in a clutch situation. That's when a player is more likely to forget himself, overkick the Center Half Forward, but fail to reach the goal square.

Look at the '96 Centenary Grand Final. The Swans attacked early, knowing the Kangaroos had a tendency to fold their tents when put in a deep hole. Bringing the ball up field for the goal that looked to be the back-breaker, a kick to Tony Lockett fell short. North Melbourne gathered the loose ball, regrouped, moved down field for a goal of their own. That 12-point swing is generally agreed to be the turning point of the game: the Bloods having allowed the Shinboners back in the game, they took advantage of the opportunity. Would a team that is used to bringing the ball through the Center Half line have made that mistake?

At the SCG, it is a little bit more tricky question. If you forget the dimensions, you are going to end up clogging the field with too many players in an area. If you're trying to flood the defensive zone, that isn't all bad. But if you're trying to create space so your offense can operate, then you've got a problem.

In the end, I think it really works out to a home field advantage both ways. But in a pressure cooker situation, I think the big field team playing on a smaller field has less disadvantage.

People who have the ability to watch a lot more games than I do are invited to explain to me why I'm wrong.

  -- RW "KC Swan" Lipp 

> I am a huge fan of Assie Football, and watch as many games as possible. Would
> someone please give me the sizt of the field, the duties of the six umpires, and
> where they are situated(placement) I know about the goal umpires, but miss their
> "white" coats. While this is the sign of the times, I still miss the
> style. Also, would someone tell me about the penalties, and suspensions.

> Thank you in advance

> Robert

the size of the field does not have a set size. the smallest field is the Sydney ground with the field being about 130m while Subiaco Oval in Perth has the biggest field with it being about 180m long. there are 2 field umpires which patrols the mid section of the field picking up the penalties, free kicks and also does the bounces. The boundary does the same except they do it along the boundary line and they throw the ball in when it goes out. The afl tribunal are very inconsistent and biased so you never know which player will be suspended or for what reason.

> I am a huge fan of Assie Football, and watch as many games as possible. Would
> someone please give me the sizt of the field, the duties of the six umpires, and
> where they are situated(placement) I know about the goal umpires, but miss their
> "white" coats. While this is the sign of the times, I still miss the
> style. Also, would someone tell me about the penalties, and suspensions.

> Thank you in advance

> Robert

the size of the field does not have a set size. the smallest field is the Sydney ground with the field being about 130m while Subiaco Oval in Perth has the biggest field with it being about 180m long. there are 2 field umpires which patrols the mid section of the field picking up the penalties, free kicks and also does the bounces. The boundary does the same except they do it along the boundary line and they throw the ball in when it goes out. The afl tribunal are very inconsistent and biased so you never know which player will be suspended or for what reason.

> The afl tribunal are very inconsistent and biased so
> you never know which player will be suspended or for what reason.

OK, inconsistent maybe but on what grounds do you say they are biased? And for or against whom or what?

-Rob de Santos
AFANA Chairman

AFANA Blog

> OK, inconsistent maybe but on what grounds do you say they are biased? And for
> or against whom or what?

> -Rob de Santos
> AFANA Chairman

The afl tribunal do favour some teams over others and are not always consistent on their punishments. Teams such as Essendon, Brisbane and Fremantle seem to get off for serious offences while other teams would get a few weeks suspensions.

> The afl tribunal do favour some teams over others and are not always consistent on
> their punishments. Teams such as Essendon, Brisbane and Fremantle seem to get off
> for serious offences while other teams would get a few weeks suspensions.

If this is true, it would be easy to prove or disprove. If anyone is game, I will be happy to forward all tribunal decisions from 2004 to them by e-mail and they can analyze it and report back.

-Rob de Santos
AFANA Chairman

AFANA Blog

> If this is true, it would be easy to prove or disprove. If anyone is game, I
> will be happy to forward all tribunal decisions from 2004 to them by e-mail and they
> can analyze it and report back.

It's not that simple, Rob. For starters, one partial season of results is insufficient data to extrapolate any real trends of tribunal bias. Sure, you could run an analysis on the data, but there just aren't enough data points to produce statistically significant results. Squeeze any data set hard enough, and you can get a statistic out of it, but squeezing hard doesn't make it meaningful.

Further, if bias exists, then it exists in the data set. Decisions are only rendered on incidents reported to the tribunal. What about the incidents that could/should have been reported, but were not? A club can get a definite advantage out of the tribunal just by not getting borderline situations reported.

At this point, the observant reader should jump up, point at the screen, come dangerously close to spilling their Carlton Victoria Bitter, and cry "AHA!" Yes, on the surface it would appear that this argument speaks to bias in the umpires making reports; and umpires and the tribunal are different things. However, I would respond by saying that you need to give me one of those VBs, and point out that an existing bias in the tribunal can manifest itself in a reluctance on the part of the umpire to make a report. No umpire wants to be known for always making reports that the tribunal rejects, so why make a report that you know the tribunal will reject.

Let me also point out that the severity of the punishment often depends on the history of the player. To fairly compare the punishments handed down, you would need to know what punishment would have been meted out in the absence of reputation and history. Lacking that information, a player who makes regular apperances would skew the data.

Now, given enough data, perhaps you could measure the consistency of the tribunal's handling of repeat offenders. If there is a consistent correlation between frequency of offense and quantitative measurements of punishment, then you could interpolate the necessary data. However, again, we find ourselves looking at insufficient data to obtain meaningful information. Besides which, if the tribunal bias exists, it would skew the ability to measure that correlation.

So, in a nutshell, we have a problem:

• we don't have enough data,
  
• we don't have the right data,
  
• and if the bias exists, the data is contaminated.

  -- RW "KC Swan" Lipp 

> It's not that simple, Rob. For starters, one partial season of results is
> insufficient data to extrapolate any real trends of tribunal bias.
...
> So, in a nutshell, we have a problem:

• we don't have enough data,
  >
• we don't have the right data,
  >
• and if the bias exists, the data is contaminated.

> I consider my proposed "test" to be about as
> serious as her claim. In other words, not worth bothering with.

I actually figured that out. I just wasn't sure that she would figure that out. In addition, I'm closing in on Lisa in the Top 25 list, and looking for messages to respond to...like this one

  -- RW "KC Swan" Lipp 

> I am a huge fan of Assie Football, and watch as many games as possible. Would
> someone please give me the sizt of the field, the duties of the six umpires, and
> where they are situated(placement) I know about the goal umpires, but miss their
> "white" coats. While this is the sign of the times, I still miss the
> style. Also, would someone tell me about the penalties, and suspensions.

> Thank you in advance

> Robert

Hi Robert-
Playing ovals vary in size for no particular reason except perhaps for space at the time they were built.

There are 3 field umpires who award free kicks and lay reports for infractions. At any given time, during play, as the ball moves from one area to another, one umpire will be the "controlling" umpire and will transfer play to one of his colleagues as the play warrants. Any umpire at anytime can stop play to award a free kick, even if it is "off the ball" or "behind play".
Boundary umpires rule whether a ball has crossed the line and will throw it back into play, or mark the spot where the oppostion must kick it in from if it was kicked over the line without being touched or touching the ground.
Field umpires position themselves to observe play as best as possible without interfering in the flow of the game.
For the most part, each umpire will patrol one-third of the ground.
Free kicks can be awarded for high tackles, a push in the back, holding the man without the ball, shepherding a player not within a certain distance of the ball, tripping, striking, holding the ball after a tackle.
Reportable offences are: tripping, headbutting, striking, charging an opposition player, wrestling, rough play, verbal abuse, racial/religious vilification.
Reports are referred to the Tribunal where a player must plead his case with the assistance of a player advocate. A player's record at the Tribunal can be taken into account when the panel deliberates. Based on the evidence presented, a player may or may not be found guilty. A guilty verdict will result in a suspension of one week or more, depending on the severity of the infraction and, as stated above, the player's previous record.
Players reported for wrestling, either in a one-on-one confrontation or as part of a major brawl, are usually fined: automatic $1200 for a first offence, and more for further offences.
Lisa
USAFL Umpire
AFANA