AFANA Footy BBS

I thought indoor footy would work, but judging from the thought I have recieved from you I guess it was just an idea. Thanks anyway.

> I thought indoor footy would work, but judging from the thought I have
> received from you I guess it was just an idea. Thanks anyway.

Yes, some of the folks here have been skeptical of the idea. That's not a reason to throw up your hands, so to speak. My suggestion is to answer those criticisms carefully, calmly and in detail. If you can convince the folks here -- the biggest fans of the sport -- you will have your biggest supporters on board to start.

Fans here are necessarily jaded about such ideas. They have watched in frustration as the Australian Football League itself has botched opportunity after opportunity to sell the sport in the USA. They have watched one proposal from promoters after another die on the vine. If you believe in your concept then sell them on it.

Regards,
-Rob

AFANA home page

> Fans here are necessarily jaded about such ideas. They have watched in
> frustration as the Australian Football League itself has botched
> opportunity after opportunity to sell the sport in the USA. They have
> watched one proposal from promoters after another die on the vine. If you
> believe in your concept then sell them on it.

We here in Oz are in the dark as to these botched opportunities of the AFL to sell Aussie Rules in the States; care to give a few examples of such proposals so that we in Oz might apply a bit of pressure.

> Yes, some of the folks here have been skeptical of the idea. That's not a
> reason to throw up your hands, so to speak.

> If you believe in your concept then sell them on it.

I agree with Rob. Even though I am one of the skeptics, I say if you believe in it give it a shot. Don't give up so easily. I would love to see you prove me wrong.

> We here in Oz are in the dark as to these botched opportunities of the
> AFL to sell Aussie Rules in the States; care to give a few examples of
> such proposals so that we in Oz might apply a bit of pressure.

Just to offer two examples... one old one and a newer one... Back around 1992 (as I am doing this from memory I could be off a year or two), the AFL planned an exhibition in Los Angeles. Tickets were sold, the Coliseum was booked, the Mayor had declared Aussie Rules Week in LA. The there was an earthquake in another part of California... as happens almost every week. The AFL cancelled and pulled out.

More recently, AFANA offered to formally assist the AFL in developing North American TV markets for the sport. After six months, we don't have so much as the courtesy of a formal acknowledgment let alone a polite "no thanks".

...and could go on and on...

-Rob

AFANA home page

> AFL planned an exhibition in Los Angeles. Tickets were sold, the Coliseum
> was booked, the Mayor had declared Aussie Rules Week in LA. The there was
> an earthquake in another part of California... as happens almost every
> week. The AFL cancelled and pulled out.

I have vague memories of this. I don't recall the reason given for the game being cancelled, I seem to recall they moved the game to Vancouver or London.

> More recently, AFANA offered to formally assist the AFL in developing
> North American TV markets for the sport. After six months, we don't have
> so much as the courtesy of a formal acknowledgment let alone a polite
> "no thanks".

Not good enough!!!

> ...and could go on and on...

Any suggestions as to how a guy who's not involved in footy (at any level) might be able to help!

> I thought indoor footy would work, but judging from the thought I have
> recieved from you I guess it was just an idea. Thanks anyway.

My previous posting may have been too harshly worded. There has been a lot of stress in the Lipp household the last week, and I have just returned from the funeral of a beloved uncle. Besides, I hadn't said anything for a while, and I needed to protect my place in the top contributors list!

Fact #1: I will admit that I don't personally think it is a very good idea. SO WHAT! Prove me wrong. I've never tried to organize a sports league, so I certainly do not have the credentials to tell you that you can't. Never let somebody who hasn't done something talk you out of doing it.

Fact #2: For your proposal to go any further than right here, you need to do some more groundwork. I've pointed out some things I think you need to do.

Just remember the three stages of the life of an idea: (1) Open Ridicule, (2) Grudging Acceptance, and (3) Claims of Origination. Right now, PIFL is in stage 1. Good luck (and I think you'll need it) pushing it to stage 2.

-- RW "KC Swan" Lipp

...you know, AFANA actually grew out of a suggestion I made to Rob...

[NO NO NO NO NO! I never openly ridiculed the idea. In fact, I considered volunteering for a leadership position until the reality of raising two kids made me conceed that I didn't have the time. I wish I had the time to take over editing that blasted non-existant newsletter]

> Besides, I hadn't said
> anything for a while, and I needed to protect my place in the top
> contributors list!

This was supposed to be enclosed in fake HTML that would indicate I was grinning as I said it. I guess WebBBS strips anything that looks like it might be HTML tags.

-- "KC Swan" Lipp

> This was supposed to be enclosed in fake HTML that would indicate I was
> grinning as I said it. I guess WebBBS strips anything that looks like it
> might be HTML tags.

Yes, the BBS is configured to do that as a security measure. It really doesn't let us "screen" HTML or javascript etc that might be posted so it is an all or nothing exercise. It does allow links and there is a feature that allows some use of things like bold, italic, etc. if I ever get time to post the instructions...

Regards,
-Rob

AFANA home page

> ...you know, AFANA actually grew out of a suggestion I made to Rob...
> [NO NO NO NO NO! I never openly ridiculed the idea. In fact, I considered
> volunteering for a leadership position until the reality of raising two
> kids made me concede that I didn't have the time. I wish I had the time to
> take over editing that blasted non-existent newsletter]

You were one of several people who came forward with suggestions all about the same time. Our former VP, Wade Hinkle, was the one who offered to help lead the effort and the first to offer to help fund it. We have no idea where he is these days...

-Rob

AFANA home page

> Not good enough!!!
> Any suggestions as to how a guy who's not involved in footy (at any
> level) might be able to help!

Any time that Wayne Jackson or one his management team appear on radio call-ins or open 'net chats ask them what they are doing about overseas promotion of the game and about these incidents... only by holding their feet to the fire will we get better support from them.

Regards,
-Rob

AFANA home page

> Any time that Wayne Jackson or one his management team appear on radio
> call-ins or open 'net chats ask them what they are doing about overseas
> promotion of the game and about these incidents... only by holding their
> feet to the fire will we get better support from them.

Ah a problem! I'm in the backwoods of Tasmania and don't get to hear those talkback shows live. I'll checkout the 'net chat option though.

As an accidental passer-by and new reader to this forum, I've enjoyed reading many of the posts here.

With regard to the AFL's appalling manners and arrogance, all I can say is: "At least they are egalitarian!" They seem to be treating you the same way they treat we aussie fans. The 'mushroom effect' is obviously universal(keep them in the dark and if you have to feed them at all, feed them shit). And Wayne Jackson would, from all appearances, be the worst of all time for this attitude.

On the positive side, individual AFL clubs (or an individual club) might be much more open to suggestions such as playing games or exhibitions overseas, even if they had to be disguised as "training camps" or "skills exhibitions" or as an "intraclub practice match" to avoid the need to get AFL approval. This would be especially true if the clubs were able to work it into their "end of season trip" or something like that. It may be worth trying the individual club approach, rather than trying to get any sort of a sensible response from the AFL.

It would be worth targeting clubs that are likely to take a second glance at these sorts of things (Kevin Sheedy seems to like ideas that the AFL don't!).

Of course, the economics would have to be right too! Who/how many would go to a match? What would be the cost of staging it, promotional costs, arena costs, security, catering, transport etc. etc.? How much revenue could they retrieve, gate revenue, merchandising, strategic promotion etc. etc.? Who's going to carry the can?? I presume all this detail has been done given that there have been previous (ignored by the AFL) proposals. Sounds like fun. Keep trying. Wouldn't it be great fun to rub the face of some AFL bureaucrats, who refused to reply to proposals, into the US turf on match day??? Wayne Jackson shirtfronted by avid fans on US turf? I'd like to see that!!!!

mike

> I have vague memories of this. I don't recall the reason given for the
> game being cancelled, I seem to recall they moved the game to Vancouver or
> London.

> Not good enough!!!

> Any suggestions as to how a guy who's not involved in footy (at any
> level) might be able to help!

> On the positive side, individual AFL clubs (or an individual club) might
> be much more open to suggestions such as playing games or exhibitions
> overseas, even if they had to be disguised as "training camps"
> or "skills exhibitions" or as an "intraclub practice
> match" to avoid the need to get AFL approval. This would be
> especially true if the clubs were able to work it into their "end of
> season trip" or something like that. It may be worth trying the
> individual club approach, rather than trying to get any sort of a sensible
> response from the AFL.

> Of course, the economics would have to be right too! Who/how many would
> go to a match? What would be the cost of staging it, promotional costs,
> arena costs, security, catering, transport etc. etc.? How much revenue
> could they retrieve, gate revenue, merchandising, strategic promotion etc.
> etc.? Who's going to carry the can?? I presume all this detail has been
> done given that there have been previous (ignored by the AFL) proposals.
> Sounds like fun. Keep trying. Wouldn't it be great fun to rub the face of
> some AFL bureaucrats, who refused to reply to proposals, into the US turf
> on match day??? Wayne Jackson shirtfronted by avid fans on US turf? I'd
> like to see that!!!!

All good points Mike. I think that the approach to exhibitions is quite possibly to be one that doesn't require the AFL's support. However, with the current AFLPA agreement guaranteeing AFL roster players so many weeks off between seasons, etc. it is making such things increasingly difficult.

The AFL knows (or ought to!) that were prepared to start planning for an exhibition in 2001 or 2002 right now. We're adamant though that it be, as you suggest, well planned out financially and from a promotional standpoint. What we don't want is a phone call tomorrow telling us they will be in City X in six weeks... that won't cut it. Another failure will set us back years and years.

Regards,

Rob

AFANA home page

> All good points Mike. I think that the approach to exhibitions is quite
> possibly to be one that doesn't require the AFL's support. However, with
> the current AFLPA agreement guaranteeing AFL roster players so many weeks
> off between seasons, etc. it is making such things increasingly difficult.

> The AFL knows (or ought to!) that were prepared to start planning for an
> exhibition in 2001 or 2002 right now. We're adamant though that it be, as
> you suggest, well planned out financially and from a promotional
> standpoint. What we don't want is a phone call tomorrow telling us they
> will be in City X in six weeks... that won't cut it. Another failure will
> set us back years and years.

> Regards,

Rob,

Your points are well taken. The AFL players association are there to provide the players with protection, and not before time too. But if things were planned well enough in advance and or the game was part of a pre-season practice arrangement, as part of the pre-season competition, or a post season trip exhibition for which an agreement was negotiated in advance, then these issues might be able to be overcome.

Failure isn't a concept alien to the AFL administration. Lack of decision making ability, obfuscation, and deceit are similarly, close allies of the administration. And don't forget, after THEY stuff-up YOUR well planned event, they'll make sure that they place the blame squarely on YOU.

I really think the only way of getting this through is to make the running from your end. You need to carefully consider what would be the best approach and then execute it. From my viewpoint (and remember I have no knowledge of how these things have been attempted in the past, so take this for what it is...uninformed comment!) the approach would be to plan from the exhibition game end ie. assume it is going to happen, decide where, plan the event and the stesp leading to it, write it up, set up a project plan, (with complete timelines and milestones but a flexible starting date) and financial analysis and present it initially to one (carefully selected) club or more *AFL clubs* as a draft project proposal. Let the club(s) give you feedback on the proposal and see where that gets you. If the club thinks the plan has merit, then get on-board with them and let them do the AFL lobbying from their side while you push with preliminary lists of potential ticket sales marketing propaganda etc. And get Rupert Murdoch and Fox on-side. Bloody hell, there's a plaque to his father who started his murky empire in the middle of the floor of the building that plays host to the AFL tribunal. And he'd dearly love to get TV rights in Australia to the game. A good publicity blast for an exhibition game in the US might get him that little step closer. Then decide on the next step. Maybe this is the way it has been approached before, I don't know, I'm just an ignorant aussie.

In my opinion, (and yes I'm full of them and possibly full of it) this AFL administration is way too wrapped up in its own self-made controversies and closed-shop dealings to be able to deal with matters of an overseas exhibition, apart from those that have been already scheduled previously...ie. the UK game or the Irish international series.

I wish you well. I'll be over there in late October and early November. Have heard that the US nationals are on somewhere (in California?) around that time. Maybe I'll get to arrange my schedule to view a game or two.

Cheers,

mike

> I wish you well. I'll be over there in late October and early November.
> Have heard that the US nationals are on somewhere (in California?) around
> that time. Maybe I'll get to arrange my schedule to view a game or two.

Mike,

The nationals are in mid October in the LA area. See the USFooty web site for info: www.usfooty.com.

Thanks for your thoughts. I pretty much agree. And for what it's worth what you are suggesting is NOT what happened in the past here and that's part of what must change. Unfortunately, I also think you are right about the current focus of the AFL on it's own problems.

We'll keep up the fight here.
Regards,

Rob

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